Persevering in Christ:defending the Faith

by John aka Jupiter King, Jan 22, 2008

A Response to the backlash on Shoutwire regarding the Revival:Bringing America back to God article.

Dear Readers,

Recently I posted "Revival:Bringing America Back to God" on shoutwire. I have since received a lot of persecution from people on the site, this article is a full response. First of all, God Loves us, He gave Christ as the sacrifice for our sin, If you choose to harden your heart rather than accepting God's gift of Salvation, then in the end you have Him alone to answer to. In the Word of God we are told "And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature." Mark 16:15

So I am doing as we are told, sharing God's message of Salvation. Despite people's persecution of Christians we still persevere, Why? because though heaven and earth will pass away, the words of Christ are eternal, He himself made that crystal clear in almost those exact words. Matthew 24:35

"Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away." Due to the Sin of Adam all of us were made subject to death, but Christ came to give salvation. Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. Romans 6:23

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. When I wrote "Revival:Bringing America Back to God" I was not surprised by the negative backlash I received. In fact it brought to mind what the scriptures say about the latter times. 1 Timothy 4:1-2

"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;."

It also brought to mind another scripture 2 Timothy 3:1-4 "This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;" I see these prophesies being fulfilled more and more in the passing days.

However, I still have hope that there are still people out there seeking, that there are still those with tender reachable hearts. It is not God's will that any should perish, but that all would come to repentance. and this is my fervent prayer, that my writings will reach people for Christ. I write not to judge, but to minister, may your hearts be opened to recieve.

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#1 by Judy Sheldon-Walker, Jan 22, 2008

Jupiter, your teachings are inspiring and uplifting. Thank you.

#2 by warangel, Jan 22, 2008

wow what an inpiering great work I loved it.

#3 by Bulshoy, Feb 14, 2008

Hi. I'm the content manager on ShoutWire.

First off, have you submtted this response to ShoutWire yet?

Second, ShoutWire users are overwhelmingly atheist. Almost militantly so. Regardless, there are a few deists among us, and even some Christians.

Don't let SW comments get you down. We don't censor comments, and some people think that this means they are obliged to leave the most offensive comments that they can come up with!

#4 by Jupiter, Feb 14, 2008

I won't let the comments get me down, God Bless

#5 by Dockwats, Feb 16, 2008

Hi, Jupiter. I'm Dockwats, site administrator for ShoutWire. Like Bulshoy said, there are many, many atheists on ShoutWire. There are members who are also Christian, Muslim, Jewish and other creeds, from all over the globe. It's quite a cultural hodgepodge and discussion, especially religious, can be quite hotly contested and discussed on the site. Don't get down about the comments, we have people who get quite spirited at times when making a point but for the most part, it leads to productive conversation.

If you or any of your peers who enjoy writing are interested, I'd be happy to have you on the site as regular guest editor to do perhaps a weekly article on religion or any world topic, from a Christian perspective. Comments do get heated, but I think it'd lead to some interesting exchanges and discussions considering our wide and varied user base.

If you are interested, just shoot me a message at dockwats AT shoutwire.com (or course properly formated) and I can get you setup.

#6 by jd8coke, Feb 16, 2008

1. when i burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, i know it creates a pleasing odor for the lord (lev.1:9). the problem is my neighbours. they claim the odor is not pleasing to them. should i smite them?

2. i would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in (exodus 21:7). in this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. i know that i am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (lev.15:19-24). the problem is, how do i tell? i have tried asking, but most women take offense.

4. (lev. 25:44) states that i may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. a friend of mine claims that this applies to mexicans, but not canadians. can you clarify? why can\'t i own canadians?

5. i have a neighbor who insists on working on the sabbath. (exodus 35:2) clearly states he should be put to death. am i morally obligated to kill him myself?

6. a friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (lev. 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. i don\'t agree. can you settle this?

7. (lev. 21:20) states that i may not approach the altar of god if i have a defect in my sight. i have to admit that i wear reading glasses. does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

8. most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by (lev.19:27). how should they die?

9. i know from (lev.11:6-8) that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may i still play football if i wear gloves?

10. my uncle has a farm. he violates (lev. 19:19) by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). he also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (lev.24:10-16) couldn\'t we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (lev. 20:14)

i know you have studied these things extensively, so i am confident you can help. thank you again for reminding us that god\'s word is eternal and unchanging.

#7 by nate, Feb 16, 2008

if you are atheist I advise you watch the movie
Case For Christ its about an Atheist guy good show!!!

#8 by Jupiter, Feb 16, 2008

JD, I know you are testing me, and dear friend I would bring to your attention that Christ died for all sin,there is no more need for bull sacrifice.

Further,He came to fulfill the Law,
as the Living sacrifice creating the New Covenant, and by him we are offered Forgiveness where before the Law would\'ve demanded death, In living for Christ we should strive to seek his will for our lives,

The Laws of God are on the heart of every man and woman, Nobody that is being obedient to Christ would go about willfully sinning.

Your test dear friend is void as it is being used as a mockery and Blatantly and deliberately taking verses out of context

You know Jesus came for the purpose of fulfilling the Law and to seek and to save, to reconcile us permanently to God, the Levitical Law was the old covenent.

It is for our learning, the Eternal Covenant however, was made by Christ's death,burial,and resurrection.

#9 by max, Feb 16, 2008

Jupiter-
i think jd's point is that it's silly for christians to pick and chose which bible verses should be upheld. if god's word is supposed to be immutable, it doesn't really make sense that he would forbid us from eating shellfish that we should suddenly forgive anyone who does. -sometimes his word is up for subjective interpretation, but other times it is stone cold law? i know christ is all about atonement and forgiveness, but so few christians practice these concepts.

#10 by Andre T, Feb 16, 2008

I am Christian Serbian Orthodox, how do American Protestants look at us? Don't we all worship the game God and follow the teachings of christs, just in the way our cultures see fit? Thanks if I get a reply.

#11 by Adam, Feb 16, 2008

and God said unto me: \"let me save you, ill give you my son\" (paraphrased of course lol)

and I said unto God: \"thanks for the offer, and im sorry about your son, but i dont need to be saved, and if i did i can do it myself. have a good one\"

and God replied: \"wow, i never thought about it like that, what have i been doing with my life?\"

and so and thus i comforted God and he doth cried upon mine shoulder. and a big hug was given forth, and all was well

#12 by Jupiter, Feb 16, 2008

To Andre, I wrote this article as a direct response to attacks I have received from atheists on Shoutwire, I was not writing to judge anyone, so Andre dear friend, God Bless,

To Adam, No One can save themselves we are ALL sinners, that is why Christ came,To seek and Save because He Loves Us and we cannot Save ourselves, May Your heart be opened and your eyes and ears as well,

I will keep you in my prayers, God Bless

#13 by Jupiter, Feb 16, 2008

Max, the Levitical Law was part of the old covenant, Christ himself said he came to fulfill the Law, none of us could uphold everything in it if we tried,

Jesus succeeded where we failed,throughout his entire life he remained without sin, He is THE sacrifice for our sin, He is the Only Begotten and Perfect Son of God who gave his Life for us,thus purchasing our forgiveness with his own pure blood, through him we now have forgiveness instead of condemnation,

For The Wages of Sin is Death, but the GIFT of God is Eternal Life through Christ Jesus our Lord,

God Himself gave the sacrifice needed for our salvation, all we must do is accept that gift through faith and seek God's will for our Lives, He said he will never leave or forsake us.

What He ordains he Sustains, when we accept Him and He freely begins to work in our lives, He will be with us forever, He is the Best friend anyone could ever have, He never fails.

#14 by John, Feb 16, 2008

Adam, what makes you better than the rest of us that has persuaded you that you could "save yourself"? We have all sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God, and you Adam my friend are no exception,

You need Christ, We all need Christ,

God Bless,

#15 by @ athiests on shoutwire, Feb 16, 2008

First, a simple principle...Indisputable evidence of the existence of God is outside the empirical domain of knowledge. Anyone living today couldn't possibly know for an absolute certainty whether god exists or not. So the believer\'s insistence that there is a god is no more of a leap of faith than the atheist\'s insistence that there isn\'t one. One is simply leaning toward God and the other is leaning away from God. Neither is it a triumph of reason to say there isn\'t one because their is no empirical, irrefutable evidence to support such a claim. Dead people cannot be brought back to life to testify in court on the subject. The crux of the argument is simply this...The believer believes even though they don\'t know. Atheist\'s don\'t believe and they don\'t know. What the two have in common is they both don\'t know.

#16 by John, Feb 16, 2008

Your Conscience testifies of the Existence of God, God proves Himself through many avenues, creation,miracles,Love itself is evidence enough of God, Why? because God is Love. Take Care, and God Bless

#17 by Agrees w/John #17, Feb 16, 2008

The fact that Biblical prophecy is still coming true to this day should tell people something, but some people turn a blind eye because they have hard hearts, All we can do is pray that their eyes will be opened.

#18 by Mattdk, Feb 16, 2008

Figures, I made a post and it got deleted.

Well, I won't ewven get right into it this time, instead I'll opt to make some replies.

"The fact that Biblical prophecy is still coming true to this day should tell people something, but some people turn a blind eye because they have hard hearts, All we can do is pray that their eyes will be opened."

Sorry for being rational. If you look at biblical prophecies with some iota of rationality, you'll quickly realize that they are written in a manner that they don't really predict anything. IF I say there will be a big war in a highly conflicted zone, does that make me a prophet? If I say some people will be sinners, does that make me a prophet? That is exactly how they are written, and, when falsly interpreted, can lead to the false assumption that the prophecies are coming true. Also, note that most of the biblical prophecies were written in order to warn people of their current time of what would happen, if they did not seek salvation.

Moreover, in the era of science, we have to stand up, ask questions and challenge beliefs. You don't need a faith to be a happy, generous person.

Sorry, I don't find faith in beliving a religion created to get humanity through the dark and bronze ages.

"Your Conscience testifies of the Existence of God, God proves Himself through many avenues, creation,miracles,Love itself is evidence enough of God, Why? because God is Love. Take Care, and God Bless"

So, the fact that I can think for myself, and feel emotions is solid proof of gods very existance? I don't know, I think evolution can also explain every single last one of those things. As more and more things written in the bible are proven scientifically wrong, more and more Christians stand up, ignore all science, and attempt to "save" everyone by forcing their own personal dogma on the uneducated public.

#19 by Mattdk, Feb 16, 2008

Forgot to add:

Sorry, but the earth has been around for a lot longer then 6000 years. Also, sorry again, but the earth is not flat.

#20 by Adam, Feb 16, 2008

thank you for your prayers. the more good thoughts in this world the better. im with 'athiests on SW' though, i cannot KNOW that god(s) exist(s) or not. maybe he/they do, maybe not, i just DONT KNOW, and because of that i find it hard to place my faith in the unknown. until the time comes where i KNOW (call me agnostic) i will rely on myself and my fellow man to better this world. i will blame MAN for all the good and bad in this world.

at john: its not about being arrogant or not, its about me taking responsibility for my own actions, and judging those actions through my eyes and the eyes of those around me. i accept all my faults and strive to change them, not because someone tells me that i should, but because I believe i should. and that is enough for me. if it turns out that i cant save myself, well i guess i didnt try hard enough eh. and its my opinion that all people should take responsibility for their actions, and not place the blame somewhere else.

#21 by John, Feb 16, 2008

Dear pyro, we die physically due to Adam's sin, Christ came to give us eternal life, in this present world we must still taste death, but after our body dies, we are no longer subject to spiritual death(the 2nd death), but rather we now have eternal life

#22 by John, Feb 16, 2008

We are not forcing anything on anyone, in all reality everyone has free will, we are simply trying to reach people, what they do with it they themselves will answer for, have you ever noted that your conscience is a still small voice that chastises you when you do wrong? Who do you think gave that to you?

Science has proven nothing in the Bible wrong, do your research child at least.
Actually most scientists have come to the conclusion that the complexity of things necessitates a creator,

Biblical Prophecy is indeed coming true,

I can give examples

1948-Israel's restoration,Isaiah 66:7-8

1967-Present Jews return to Jerusalem
Bible Passage Zechariah 8:7-8

Israel would be re-established as a united nation
Bible passage: Ezekiel 37:21-22
Fulfilled: 1948

Another striking evidence of divine inspiration is found in the fact that many of the principles of modern science were recorded as facts of nature in the Bible long before scientist confirmed them experimentally. A sampling of these would include:

* Roundness of the earth (Isaiah 40:22)
* Almost infinite extent of the sidereal universe (Isaiah 55:9)
* Law of conservation of mass and energy (II Peter 3:7)
* Hydrologic cycle (Ecclesiastes 1:7)
* Vast number of stars (Jeremiah 33:22)
* Law of increasing entropy (Psalm 102:25-27)
* Paramount importance of blood in life processes (Leviticus 17:11)
* Atmospheric circulation (Ecclesiastes 1:6)
* Gravitational field (Job 26:7)

#23 by Robert, Feb 16, 2008

I am with John, Science cannot disprove the Bible, The more science discovers the more it validates the Bible:)

P.S. Nobody can mock God and expect to win, God always proves himself

#24 by Anonymous, Feb 16, 2008

A few things to think on,

Scientific Principle w/Biblical reference
Time had a beginning 2 Timothy 1:9, Titus 1:2, 1 Corinthians 2:7

The universe had a beginning Genesis 1:1, 2:4, Isaiah 42:5,

The universe was created from the invisible Hebrews 11:3
The dimensions of the universe were created Romans 8:38-39

The universe is expanding Job 9:8, Psalms 104:2, Isaiah 40:22, Isaiah 42:5, Isaiah 44:24, Isaiah 45:12, Isaiah 48:13, Isaiah 51:13, Jeremiah 10:12, Jeremiah 51:15, Zechariah 12:1

Creation of matter and energy has ended in the universe (refutes steady-state theory) Genesis 2:3-4
The universe is winding down and will "wear out" (second law of thermodynamics ensures that the universe will run down due to "heat death"-maximum entropy) Psalms 102:25-27

Light is in motion Job 38:19-20

Science SUPPORTS AND VALIDATES the Bible, atheists assertions that "science has proved the Bible wrong" are ignorant and uneducated themselves

To God Be the Glory, Forever
Amen

#25 by Atheist, Feb 17, 2008

This is caused by what is just a difference in points of view. Christians by and large see attempting to convert people as a very good thing, like you are doing them a favor. Unfortunately from a different point of view attempting to convert someone can feel very patronising and insulting. To attempt to convert someone to your way of thinking is to say "I know more than you do and I know what's best for you".

Now this is where the points of view come in. If in fact the bible is true then converting someone would be doing them a huge favor and I can see why it is referred to in the manor Jupiter King uses in his articles. However if you can, for a moment, take the point of view that the bible is in fact not true and there is no god then what you are attempting to do and the manner in which you do is the hight of rudeness.

To Quote Jupiter King
"So I am doing as we are told, sharing God's message of Salvation. Despite people's persecution of Christians we still persevere, Why? because though heaven and earth will pass away, the words of Christ are eternal, He himself made that crystal clear in almost those exact words. Matthew 24:35"

So when you address people in this manner do not be surprised if all responses are not civil, for to their ears your manner is no closer to civil than theirs'.

Atheist.

as a side note quoting the bible to prove the truth of the bible doesn't impress anyone.

#26 by John, Feb 17, 2008

The Word of God is the Word of God, and God Himself validates His own word by writing His Laws on our Hearts and giving us a conscience that testifies of Him, I do not find it rude to talk to people about God, it may stir their heart, some harden their hearts and while that's a sad thing it is not my place to judge, Jupiter just wrote this article to minister and that is not rude at all, you still have free will and writing an article is a far cry from shoving anything down your throats, I have however watched several people outright attack him and yet these same people say he is rude? How hypocritical

#27 by Eve, Feb 17, 2008

Since you're quoting a lot of scripture here, do you blame us for all the sin in this world (getting kicked out of the garden)? Cause apparently it wasn't Adams fault...Please, someone say yes to this question, I would just love to hear that.

#28 by John, Feb 17, 2008

We were all subject to the consequence of Adam's Sin, call it an inherited curse if you like, However, God gave Us Jesus Christ as the Living Sacrifice so that we could be reconciled unto Him, and though we still must face the physical death we are freed from the condemnation that came with the Fall of Adam,thus we do not have to face the 2nd Death

It was Adam's responsibility to inform His wife of what would happen if He sinned, Adam's Sin cursed Humanity, Christ's righteousness saves Us.

#29 by Jupiter, Feb 17, 2008

P.S. Any blasphemous,profane,argumentative,persecutory or otherwise derogatory comments will be marked as spam, civil conversation however is welcome, I will be monitoring comments, I will not delete any commentary without cause, God Bless

#30 by Rob, Feb 17, 2008

The 2nd death is reserved for the Willfully Unrepentant, the ones that Love their darkness, It is not God's will that any perish, but some choose to by the hardening of their own heart

#31 by Bunny, Feb 17, 2008

Hey thanks for deleting my previous comment, I'll just repost it will I?

2 Points here

1 There is no context to your post, its just drivel

2 You cannot use the contents of the bible to prove the contents of the bible

(why dont you try challenging peoples ides instead of ignoring them?)

#32 by Nig nig, Feb 17, 2008

Calm down Mr.Christian, we meant no offense.

#33 by Bunny, Feb 17, 2008

Word Zero

lol

#34 by Jupiter, Feb 17, 2008

I responded to comments, my responses are on shoutwire, read them, as far as this page goes what I said earlier stands,derogatory comments will be deleted. as for those that are attacking me I have never met such militantly hate filled people, take care

#35 by Jupiter, Feb 17, 2008

P.S. as I said previously the Bible validates itself, and to zero, you are the one spewing profanities on my pages and you say I'm a hypocrite simply because I find blatantly derogatory commentary offensive, please zero, stop being such a baby there are better ways to respond to people than w/profanity and hate

Take care

#36 by Age of Reason, Feb 17, 2008

First, you shouldn't delete comments that are "argumentative." Maybe ones that use profanity, but what do you mean "argumentative". You mean, by that word, either that a comment is "debatable" or you mean it is "part of an argument". If you mean the former, well, the entire bible is "argumentative". If you mean the latter, your entire series of articles is "argumentative".

But, let's go through what you said in this one first:

"I have since received a lot of persecution from people on the site"
See, that is exactly the problem with your kind of people. You see dissent as persecution when it is done to you, but "god's work" when you do it to others. Why not just say, "It has been pointed out that some of my statements are hypocritical?"

"If you choose to harden your heart rather than accepting God's gift of Salvation"
If you choose to harden your mind to logic, reasoning, and reality by using superstition and mythology, keep it to yourself. It just lowers my opinion of people that usually do wonderful charity with compassion. Now, if they could only keep their fear and delusions to themselves afterwards...

"then in the end you have Him alone to answer to."
That's right. If I am wrong, I will have him to answer to. Not you. Not christians. So stay out of our government.

"In the Word of God we are told "And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature." Mark 16:15"
Great. That's really SPECIAL. We've heard it. Mark (or whatever committee actually wrote it) doesn't tell us to preach to every creature until they convert. You've made your effort, your imaginary friend is happy, NOW STOP PESTERING US every time you (collectively as christians and you specifically Jupiter) feel we are going to hell. You've preached, now stop it. Stay in your home, put on a aluminum foil hat, wait for your rapture, and stop being such a busybody that you think your religion is the only one that matters in this country.

Then again, you will probably delete this, anyway...

#37 by xxoozero, Feb 17, 2008

"please zero, stop being such a baby"

I'm not the one crying about "persecution" and deleting comments I don't agree with.

Your bible doesn't validate itself at all, it is more of a contradiction. If you would like a debate on this, I would be more than happy to oblige you.

That is, unless you are a coward...

#38 by John, Feb 17, 2008

Dear Reason, your conscience testifies of God, you ever notice your conscience is a still small voice that chastises when you do something wrong? Who do you think gave that to you?, you get chastised by your conscience whether you want to be or not,
you have no control over that,it happens automatically because that's what your conscience was given to you for, and yet some people still harden their hearts, sad.

#39 by Fundamentally Flawed, Feb 17, 2008

Anyone willing to put their faith in mans written words is truly lost and needs to find some real truth.

Christians hold onto a book that wasn\\\'t even orally dictated by the son of god, rather it was written by men years later proving that the bible fundamentally flawed, and in fact not gods message.

If you truly are looking for god I would recommend that you start looking in the real world where the real messages are being taught.

Spacemonk420

#40 by None, Feb 17, 2008

Jupiter is right, Zero. Don't respond with profanity and hate. Respond with ignorance and hate. It works for Jupiter.
Turn a blind eye to your own sinning and concentrate on what your neighbor is doing!
As for John saying "Love itself is evidence enough of God, Why? because God is Love." You just proved A=B is true because you say B=A is true. It doesn't work that way! I could just as easily say, "god does not exist because the giraffe exists. because a giraffe is not god." It is called a tautology when nothing is proved by a statement and no information is conveyed. Look it up (if there are any books left other than the bible after christians take over the government).

#41 by Age of Reason, Feb 17, 2008

I feel bad when I have done something wrong because I know that there will be consequences in my life when I do, not because a figment might be watching.
John, your statements prove nothing. I could turn it around. You feel lust while looking at your neighbor's wife. Because everyone feels that (she is very hot), god must have put that feeling into you. Therefore, there is a god because your neighbor's wife is hot. (Actually, this almost convinces me because my friend's wife is so hot, I often believe her to be a supernatural creation. But actually, she is a creation of a local plastic surgeon, but I digress...)
I would propose that I am more moral than any devout follower of the christ cult because I do good because I choose to and refrain from bad because I don't want to do harm. As opposed to bribing an overseer or fearing eternal punishment.

#42 by Thomas Jefferson's Ghost, Feb 17, 2008

Jupiter, in response to your original article and the one this article is defending, let me ask you this:
Would you be willing to submit to a muslim government? If muslims become the majority, which is a possibility that many European countries are facing, is it okay for them to force your wife to cover your face, you to destroy your alcohol, and Xxoozero to never EAT BACON AGAIN!?!?
No? Because it is your right to practice your religion without interference from the government? Well, it is also our right to practice our lack of religion (don't confuse with lack of morality) without interference from your proposed Christian government.

#43 by John, Feb 17, 2008

fundamentally, nobody has proved the Bible wrong, because it can't be proven wrong, some people deliberately take things out of context and skew them to their own means, but when it really comes down to it the Bible stands firm.

Reason,we all are given the Laws of God written on our minds and hearts, you could debate all day long and that wouldn't change.

To None, Jupiter has not displayed any hate or ignorance, you and others are actually proving something he wrote in his article about the Last Days but you're too blind to see it, you're fulfilling it nonetheless

"For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers,"

also being fulfilled is that many people are "Lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;" and others are "fierce, despisers of those that are good,"

Wake Up people, God Bless

#44 by Jupiter, Feb 17, 2008

You will all be in my prayers, by the way to none you said

"Turn a blind eye to your own sinning and concentrate on what your neighbor is doing!"

I never said I was without sin, the message here that I was trying to share is that Christ died for our sins and He is waiting for whosoever may come unto Him, You can be assured that if you go to Him in faith he will not cast you out

#45 by Jupiter, Feb 17, 2008

My commentary is ended, take care all

#46 by Matthew Stephens , Feb 17, 2008

I see many people only proving J.K.'s Point,some people have calloused hearts and they hate people that try to reach the world with the Gospel because to acknowledge God and repent would mean they'd have to admit they need God b/c nobody can save themselves, we are all sinners, nonetheless I hope your eyes will be opened and your hearts and minds as well.

#47 by trashman, Feb 17, 2008

copy and paste,bro , copy and paste

#48 by Jupiter, Feb 17, 2008

trashman, I can take critiques as well as the next man, but when you are being derogatory your comments by necessity and principle must be removed, and moreover, calling me stupid or hypocritical or whatever because you don't agree is pointless, nobody is forcing you to read this page, It would seem to me the only reason you are on this page(since you are clearly not interested in what is written on it) is that your goal is to attack it, but this article is meant to minister and I will not sink to the level of belittling and berating as you and zero have done.

#49 by None, Feb 17, 2008

Jupiter, you call someone's heart "calloused", "argumentative", and "hate filled" when they disagree with you, but trashy can't call you "hypocritical" when he catches you in a contradiction?

And what happened to the "end" of your commentary? A lie? What?

#50 by trashman, Feb 17, 2008

your commentaries are much more derogatory, you threaten with doom and gloom of hellish proportion, as to me simply pointing out, your arrogance and belliteling.
This article was a whiny complaint, of a pratice you yourself endulge in under the shroud of biblical hypocricy.

In my post you will not burn , or suffer for eternity, you will ONLY have to examine your own practices before you call upon others to, lighten their tone, or their faith or absence of it.
Your stance is what people in the real world call hypocritical, and i might not be light in my words, but i do understand the impact they have and in fact take full responcibillity for every one of them.

You attacked us, belittled us under the shroud of freedom of religion and expressing your faith, and denying us a counter argument. At SW they at least have the descency to let everybody bring forward their opinion, even if it is as retarded and ill thought of as yours.(see i'm still not condemning you to doom and gloom and an eternity of suffering, because i learned one thing from jesus's phylosophies, and that is to be forgiving, i do however make a rational conclusion based on the lack of communicative skills, and empathy you continuously display)

You complained yourself, i merely handed you the explanation as to why this occurance happened to you in the way it did, to put it simple for you "what comes around, goes around".

#51 by Jupiter, Feb 17, 2008

None, A man is not going to just stand and watch as people attack him, I didn't Lie, my commentary regarding this article is done, but that does not mean I cannot respond to criticism, amazing how you jumped at the chance to point out that I wrote something else,Did you actually even read it? It was a direct response to criticism not a comment regarding the article.

people have the right to agree or disagree, but hostility is unnecessary

#52 by John, Feb 17, 2008

Expressing faith is in no way belittling, Jupiter was trying to reach you with the gospel of Christ so that you will NOT have to face the judgment of condemnation , it is not hypocrisy at all, and He wasn't threatening anyone, just stating what the Bible clearly says,

We are ALL Sinners, there are consequences for Sin, Jesus came to SAVE us from the condemnation that our sin has earned us, at no point did Jupiter say "I am better than you" because He knows we are all sinners,

#53 by John, Feb 17, 2008

Jupiter is not being arrogant or vain, He feels attacked because many people are often outright hostile to Christians in general and as He said Hostility is unnecessary, He was saying WE are ALL sinners(he did not exclude himself in this "WE"). He is simply trying to share the Good News that Christ died for our sins,

People take it as him being arrogant, but look deeper,closer and you will see He cares for people and would rather see them have eternal life in Christ then to Have to be subject to Hell because of the hardness of their hearts, God does not send people to Hell, people condemn themselves by hardening their own hearts

#54 by John, Feb 17, 2008

Admittedly we may come across harsh in our comments, but it is only out of necessity of urgency, as there are millions dying daily and we want to see them have Eternal Life, we were trying to minister, and not to be pricks, I apologize if we came across that way

#55 by Jupiter, Feb 17, 2008

Dear Trashman, I am sorry if I came across judgmental, I am no better than you and vice versa, we are all sinners and that was my point. Christ came to save us and it was only my intent through this article to share that, as John said, I was not trying to be a prick

Apologies and Take care

#56 by Matt Stephens, Feb 17, 2008

Unrepentance leads to Hell, people choose to send themselves there, it was never God's intent that anyone perish, He sent Christ to free us from condemnation, Jesus Christ was beaten beyond recognition and then hung on a cross for US, God sent his Only Son as the Ultimate Sacrifice, If I was a father, I couldn't even imagine the pain God felt.

Please, at least have an open heart that's all I ask

#57 by Jupiter, Feb 17, 2008

Dear People, I know I may not reach everybody,However if You actually Read the Bible in it's full context, it has no contradictions, It has the Old Covenant(Old Testament where the Law Was Given) and the New Testament, (where Christ fulfilled the Law and paid our Sin debt.)

This article was written to those who's hearts are open to recieve, if you choose to close your heart I will not be your judge, take your debates and argumentative commentary elsewhere. Nobody is forcing you to read this article,

God Bless

#58 by Michael, Feb 17, 2008

Anybody can take scriptures out of context, call it a "contradiction" and use that as an excuse for their unbelief, However, when studied in context and read through thoroughly the Bible is actually consistent, It Is Eternal and It is the Living Word of God

Take care and may your eyes be opened

#59 by xxoozero, Feb 17, 2008

I guess your faith is as strong as your writing

#60 by xxoozero, Feb 18, 2008

The invitation is open to any writer here.

I'll give you temp editor status on SW and I'll even go first.

#61 by Adam, Feb 18, 2008

Jup: Preachers just sound condescending. discuss, dont preach. can you tell the difference????? it took you getting offended to hear your opinion, where Every Word Wasnt Capitalized as If To say It was a Quote.

say i bring up the topic of the crucifixion. can we talk about the story, where it may or may not be accurate. The Koran says jesus WASN\\\'T crucified, but another was taken in his place. can we talk about the validity of that? both texts are similarly old, both discuss the life of Jesus in great detail. but im going to go ahead and assume that you haven\\\'t read the Koran right? tell me you look outside your 2D box and find other sources of information. you can examine it from different angles maybe?

any sentence with more than the PERSONAL NOUNS capitalized just isnt worth reading (\\\'save\\\' is not supposed to be capitalized btw)

#62 by John, Feb 18, 2008

The Bible is quite clear that Christ Was crucified, the Disciples who walked with Him documented it themselves It is not necessary to debate

Save can be capitalized if Jupiter chooses to capitalize it, then so be it sometimes it's necessary for emphasis more than grammatical etiquette.

#63 by Matt Stephens, Feb 18, 2008

lol, Adam, You criticize J.K. for using caps yet you do the same thing, the irony. I think you just wanted something to complain about, Maybe I'm wrong but that's how it seems, btw The gospel account was written by people who actually walked with Christ in the flesh, so surely they would know about His Life and crucifixion

you think people having doubt, hard hearts and unbelief is something new? It isn't.

In fact the Bible says Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. (John 3:11)

many people, even in the disciples day closed their ears and hardened their hearts despite having the witnesses who walked with Christ right in front of them.

#64 by ChuchoGL, Feb 18, 2008

For the scientific data, i should say good guess for the part of the bible, yet, no math involved, no proof. That is a guess if there is no proof.
But anyway, any response from here is going to be a verse or something similar.

#65 by Matt S., Feb 18, 2008

to Chucho, refer to John's comment (#24) the Bible stated things as facts of nature that were later scientifically confirmed, note that that was long before the technology that we have today,it was definitely more than guesses.

Scientific fact confirms the Bible, it doesn't contradict it.

#66 by Rob, Feb 18, 2008

Some scientific "theories" of old (such as the theory of evolution) try to dispute the Bible,
but on close examination those theories fall apart.

As Matt said Scientific fact actually confirms the Bible.

Even Charles Darwin(the inventor of the theory of Evolution)
Later retracted his own theory, though it is still clung to by some agnostic scientists today, and taught in schools under the guise of science.

Actually, Most of the Scientific community after consideration of the facts of nature have stated that the sheer complexity of Biology,Anatomy, thermodynamics etc. Necessitate a creator, keep up with your studies before you go trying to debate.

#67 by Jupiter, Feb 18, 2008

Trashman,I do not think Rob has to elaborate on (necessitates a creator) it's self explanatory, your commentary was marked as spam because you insist on insighting debate, and mocking people's faith. in 21 years nobody has ever shown me a "contradiction" in the Bible. What they have shown is things people have skewed the context and meaning of in order to support their own idea that there are "contradictions" when there in actuality are not,

#68 by Jupiter, Feb 18, 2008

Zero, It's not that our faith is weak at all, it's that it is useless debating with someone who has calloused themselves, your comment has been marked as Spam,because debating is frivolous

P.S. Update your scientific studies before trying to debate, Spontaneous generation has been disproved, something cannot be formed from nothing,"cosmic dust" is laughable.
Creation dictates the necessity of creator, it is inevitable due simply to the fact that organization on such a complex scale could not have happened at random, chaos can only cause chaos.

#69 by Matt S., Feb 18, 2008

the Organization of everything mandates an organizer, that is common sense,

A simple example.
you can have all the ingredients for a sandwich, but until they are placed together they are still only ingredients, someone has to come along and make the sandwich, it will not make itself.

The same principle applies to the Universe, organization not only dictates, but proves the existence an organizer, once again common sense

#70 by sigh, Feb 18, 2008

Zero, God is the Creator, He is not bound by the limits that we are,He is mysterious in many ways even now,nonetheless He exists, Our Conscience,creation's complexity and organization prove that.

J.K's point is Nothing in our physical realm can come out of nothing, God However is Spirit and He is Eternal.

#71 by Jessi , Feb 18, 2008

1 Corinthians 2:14

But the natural(carnal) man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

commentary:
It is only by the renewing of our minds through repentance and faith in Christ that we can truly know and follow Him.

2 Corinthiana 5:17

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

#72 by Jessi , Feb 18, 2008

correction *2 Corinthians 5:17, sorry for the previous typo

#73 by xxoozero, Feb 18, 2008

This is exactly how xtianity works... "If we don't agree with you, we will just censor you."

#74 by Adam, Feb 18, 2008

an example:

\"In fact the Bible says Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. (John 3:11)\"

i take this to mean that they (contributers to the Biblical text) are speaking \'the truth\', correct? that they do not suffer the human condition of \'bias\'? or to say it in another way, that the Bible is 100% unbiased. (in terms of the \'facts\' that are presented within)

from your speaking i take that none are free from sin except for Jesus. that is to say that every word emanating from Jesus (and only Jesus) is the truth.

therefore, the Bible must in some cases be skewed by the bias of those writing/contributing to it? that their accounts of what happened might not be exactly correct? this seems like a logical approach.

#75 by John, Feb 18, 2008

Zero, You've stated outright that all you want is a debate,which is why you keep returning I guess.
However, Jupiter has said that argumentative,debating,backbiting and derogatory comments will be removed,This article is not up for debate, it is for ministry and informative purposes

As I said in comment 45, you are only proving what J.K. said in his article

bye

#76 by John, Feb 18, 2008

Adam, the Crucifixion is Historical fact, the Bible is the Eternal Word of God, It was written by those that walked with Christ, they recorded the facts they saw, facts, by nature are not biased, Therefore your belief that the Bible is Biased is a flawed belief.

Take care

#77 by Adam, Feb 18, 2008

at John:
"It was written by those that walked with Christ, they recorded the facts they saw,..."

"facts they saw" "facts...they...saw" facts--saw

you cannot 'see' a 'fact'. seeing by its very nature is a biased process. it is a biological process.

#78 by Adam, Feb 18, 2008

ps- memory is also biased. the way you remember something is NEVER that way it actualy happened. colors change, people change, actions and words change. therefore even during the time between them witnessing the act and them writing it down something was changed.

#79 by Jessi , Feb 18, 2008

The Sun rises, the Sun Sets, this is a fact, we can see it, Adam the same principle applies.

#80 by P,S. from Jessi, Feb 18, 2008

Adam: "the way you remember something is NEVER that way it actualy happened." In that case all the criminals that were ever ID'd by eye witness memory should be freed immediately!!

Do you see the fallacy of your statement?

Every one of the Gospel accounts is in accordance with each other and there were plenty of witnesses at the crucifixion

#81 by zero, Feb 19, 2008

I'll leave you guys to your ignorance.

When you die, you are going to be pretty disappointed.

#82 by Jupiter, Feb 19, 2008

Dear readers, anything derogatory,mocking, or blasphemous will be deleted from this point on. This article is not up for debate, you are free to excercise your right to disagree if that is what you choose to do you will not answer to me, once again nobody is forcing you to read this article.

Take care

#83 by Jessi, Feb 19, 2008

There is indeed Hell, a friend of mine who died on the operating table after a heart attack said He got a taste of it, they were able to resuscitate him, but he was unable to walk for a great while after that because his feet had been scorched, to Zero, a little faith too hard to muster? It is you dear friend who will be disappointed and you will be without excuse as well because you were told of the gospel but apparently it's falling on deaf ears.

Nonetheless you are in my prayers

#84 by Jupiter, Feb 19, 2008

Adam, your comments and links were deleted because they are, as you so eloquently like to use the word, biased as they are based merely on secular man's explanation of memory and perception, man does not know all, an opinion can be biased, that no one disputes, but facts, by nature are not.

as I previously stated, the Gospels verify themselves

a few quotes you might find interesting

"Without faith, how can one hope to know the mind of God?"

"Science, without faith is blind"

#85 by Jupiter King, Feb 19, 2008

Stay off my page if you can't be civil, btw I saw the comment someone left under my name, to the person who left it, that's childish not to mention derogatory and the fact that you can't even have courtesy enough to use your own name proves only that you've resorted to childish means of mockery, get a grip

#86 by A Little Education, Feb 19, 2008

Isaiah 40:22 says God sits above 'the circle of the earth' (the Hebrew word for 'circle' can also mean a 'sphere'). Also, Luke 17:34-36 depicts Christ's Second Coming as happening while some are asleep at night and others are working at day-time activities in the field-an indication of a rotating earth with day and night at the same time.

Some Bible critics have claimed that Revelation 7:1 assumes a flat earth since the verse refers to angels standing at the "four corners" of the earth. Actually, the reference is to the cardinal directions: north, south, east, and west. Similar terminology is often used today when we speak of the sun's rising and setting, even though the earth, not the sun, is doing the moving. Bible writers used the "language of appearance," just as people always have. Without it, the intended message would be awkward at best and probably not understood clearly

In the Old Testament, Job 26:7 explains that the earth is suspended in space, the obvious comparison being with the spherical sun and moon.

#87 by Franco Calvin, Feb 20, 2008

I pray God that their hearts be no longer hardened to the point where it breaks easily when you minister unto them the Gospel. They write these derogatory notes attempting to break you, JK, and fellow believers, not for the purpose of articulating their opinions, but to attack us who share the same faith. But as you've said, and it should not be regarded as lightly, we must persevere. The same way the apostles were mocked and stoned, the same do they assail us.

Pray for one another, that the message of the Gospel bring more joy and is effective to those who chose to listen.

May God be with all

PS: if anyone would be interested, I've posted an article, an attempt to prove God scientifically. It's titled "Scientific proof that God exists."

#88 by Bulshoy, Feb 21, 2008

Interesting debate here. I guess it\\\'s futile to ask ShoutWire visitors to be respectful.

I\\\'m almost certain that there is a \\\"God\\\". It\\\'s one of those deep down, gut feelings. I can\\\'t back it up with evidence, but I suppose that\\\'s the nature of \\\"beliefs.\\\"

I was raised a Catholic, attended a Catholic school and went to Catholic mass. Our priest was not a \\\"fire and brimstone\\\" kind of guy - he tried to make us understand the message of Jesus.

I have the utmost respect for Jesus, and i\\\'m pretty sure there IS a God, but i\\\'ll be damned if an organisation created by men is going to dictate my relationship with God.

I think that we can all have our own personal relationship with God without the need for dogma or organized religion. History has shown that organized religion appears to be the path AWAY from God.

#89 by 1 more 'gain, Feb 21, 2008

SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE - ARGGHH!!!!

#90 by RJ, Feb 21, 2008

Faith is a heart matter, some people who go to churches may just be going through the motions of "religion",the evidence of true faith is how they live the rest of the time, in their daily walk.

What it really comes down to is faith, anybody can walk into a church, but that won't save them,
Knowing Jesus as Lord and Savior is the key to salvation,

Separation of church and state does not mean a person has to put aside their faith if they are going to be in government, all it means is that a government institution cannot hinder a person from freely practicing their faith,

we have freedom of religion in this country for a reason,and no laws can be made hindering "the free exercise thereof"
but as I said faith is more than just religion.

#91 by Bulshoy, Feb 22, 2008

While I agree that a person in government should not have to put aside their beliefs, their beliefs should not be a factor when making decisions that affect people who may not share those beliefs.

There are myriad examples where someone's religious beliefs could prevent them from making a fair decision. One such example is the issues surrounding gay marriage. While marriage is a sacrement as far as Christianity is concerned, marriage is also a legally binding contract under the eyes of the law. Outlawing gay marriage may be the right thing to do in the eyes of a Christian, but once you take religion out of the picture, outlawing gay marriage is simply discrimination based on sexual orientation.

#92 by Rob, Feb 22, 2008

People know right from wrong in their hearts, their conscience was given to them for a purpose, when people willfully rebel against the Moral Laws written on their hearts they bring the consequence on themselves, many people think that we Christians are trying to control them or discriminate, but if they will heed that still small voice people call the conscience, they will realize that we are ministering out of Brotherly Love,

we do not want to see people perish, if we stood idly by and didn't bother trying to reach them, then in the end their blood would be on our hands, God sent Jesus Christ so that nobody would have to perish, but willfull rejection of that precious gift has a price, it's simply the nature of cause and effect, God does not will that any perish, but the people that remain unrepentant will

Salvation is free to whosoever will come unto Christ, with a humble heart, repent and accept

#93 by Jupiter, Feb 22, 2008

"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 6:23

For All future readers, Christ Jesus died for YOU, if you were the only man or woman on the earth, He still would've come and given His Life because He Loves You and He wants Eternal fellowship with you, if you are downtrodden, lift up that prayer and God will hear you and He will bring you through any circumstance no matter how big it may seem.

Nothing is impossible with God

God Bless All

#94 by John, Feb 23, 2008

Dear Max, you stated

"i think jd's point is that it's silly for christians to pick and chose which bible verses should be upheld. if god's word is supposed to be immutable, it doesn't really make sense that he would forbid us from eating shellfish that we should suddenly forgive anyone who does."

Forgiveness was BOUGHT by the Blood of Christ, the New Covenant fulfilled the Old by Christ being the permanent Sacrificial offering, It is ONLY through his Blood that we can be saved, Salvation is freely offered due to the fact Christ paid the debt we the Sinners owed,

Salvation is freely offered to all because it cost The Son of God His Life, He freely gave His all for us, is it then so much to ask that we give our all in return?

Christ deserves our Love because He first Loved Us

#95 by John, Feb 23, 2008

I repeated what Jupiter said to reinforce it and drive the message Home, Our Salvation was Bought in blood,yet I notice so many that ignore it or take it for granted, and that is a tragedy

#96 by RJ, Feb 23, 2008

I agree with John, We love those people that die defending our nation's freedoms,yet all too often, many people trample on the One who bought our Eternal freedom and Salvation,is it so much to ask that people give God Acknowledgment,Love, and Honor?

#97 by Polytheist, Feb 23, 2008

\"if you are downtrodden, lift up that prayer and God will hear you and He will bring you through any circumstance no matter how big it may seem.

Nothing is impossible with God\"

So true my friend. Prayer is so great!My sister was raped at the young of 16. So me being a good little christian prayed so hard for her just to feel better. Guess what she did! god gave her cancer and she lost of all her hair spent several months in the hospital! WOW isnt that just a true testament to gods love and my faith in him? AMAZING!

Also you grossly exaggerate your bible\'s scientific credibility. for example jermiah 32:22 HAS nothing to do with science. WHATSOEVER. Also jeremiah is in the old testament. You can not quote any verse from the old testament and hold it as fact because i will show you 100 more than are utter idiocy.

This is why you christians gather in churches and attend your little sunday potlucks together in fellowship because if you talked about the ridiculous things to normal sane people you would be laughed right into your \"2nd death\"

#98 by John, Feb 24, 2008

Dear Po;ytheist, I have seen God work in mighty ways, you set out with your post to mock our Christian faith because a bad thing happened in your life that made you angry, we all go through struggles, but if we hold fast in faith we can overcome. We have no greater trials than that which is common to all, God does not give people cancer and other diseases, we all have things we go through.

as far as your sister being raped, that has to do with the fact that some people are cold hearted and rebellious,they know rape is wrong but they do it because they want to fulfill the lusts of their own flesh, God cannot be blamed for the hardness of some men's hearts

Btw the verse quoted about the vast number of stars was Jeremiah 33:22 not 32:22

#99 by Rob, Feb 24, 2008

God can only work in a heart that is humble and contrite, He honors the tender hearted and sets himself against the proud, further if someone is deliberately rebelling against God, they have no right to complain when they don\'t receive his blessings

Remember Proverbs 28:9

"He that turneth away from hearing the Law, even his prayer shall be abomination"

God will not even set his ear to hear the prayers of the deliberately rebellious.

#100 by John, Feb 24, 2008

As the host of heaven cannot be numbered, neither the sand of the sea measured: so will I multiply the seed of David my servant, and the Levites that minister unto me.

Jeremiah 33:22

#101 by RJ, Feb 24, 2008

Polytheist I have noticed the same post you left on another article(or something similar if I recall)I believe you posted it on another one of J.K.'s articles actually,but it's been a while since I saw it. Anyway apparently you've been carrying that anger quite a while, did it ever cross your mind that your anger is what is hindering your prayers?

#102 by Jessi, Feb 24, 2008

Anything genuinely repented of can be forgiven, but until a person humbles themselves it is pointless for them to expect God to honor their prayers,However, if and when they genuinely repent with a soft heart, God will abundantly pardon and they can then have fellowship with Him, If right now God is working on your heart,do not take it for granted, but instead count it a blessing and humble yourself

#103 by bipolar2, Feb 24, 2008

>> religion belongs to culture, not some super-nature

Words like ‘god’ ‘theism’ ‘atheism’ are highly ambiguous (multiple acceptable meanings) and are also vague (criteria for in/exclusion are ill-defined).

Perhaps the atheist is, to use Nietzsche’s word, a complete “anti-metaphysician.” One who opposes any doctrine of a supernatural realm, whether of Platonic ideas, gods, demons, spirits, minds, karma, reincarnation.

“We godless anti-metaphysicians” accept only one world. The world we call ‘Nature.’ And, not to forget, our human handiwork, culture. Religion belongs to cultures embedded in nature.

Religion is cultic mythology enforced by custom, law, prejudice, violence, revenge. Religion is an obsolete cultural construct.

bipolar2
© 2008

#104 by Jupiter, Feb 24, 2008

Dear Bipolar, first off faith is more than just "religion" as was said previously anybody can go through the motions of religion, but true faith will be reflected by how a person lives outside the church walls. and faith is not obsolete in the least, I have seen God work,From my birth to present day my life has been full of miracles in the words of my friend Rob, "is a little faith so hard to muster?"

my dr.'s said I'd be a vegetable if I lived at all after I was suffocated due to physician error, However, today I am alive and well, my dr's (these are men of science usually mind you,) admitted it was a Miracle, so while some may have their doubts or unbelief, my faith is set in stone.

#105 by 1 more 'gain, Feb 24, 2008

@ RJ:

on the notion of separation of church and state...

i completely accept that this means people are free to practice their religion without the influence of the state.

however, this also means that the state is free to function without the influence of religion.

you can't have one and not the other. you don't have to set aside your religion, but if you are going to make judgments then you must make them on the basis of man's law, not God's. while this may sound blasphemous to some, it is necessary because that is what 'the people' have decided. if that changes, then ok, but it's how it stands for now.

#106 by JV, Feb 24, 2008

John that was a simple type-o about the verse. What about this verse: \"If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.\" which is found in Deuteronomy 22:23-24. So basically my parents should have found the man who raped my sister got them together and then killed them both. YEAH THAT MAKES SO MUCH SENSE. Also it seems the only reason god even wanted to kill the man is because he violated his neighbor\'s wife. (aka property). god cares nothing of females and I will show you verse after verse in the old and new testament that back it up.

\"He that turneth away from hearing the Law, even his prayer shall be abomination\"

Well what the hell does that mean because jesus said this too: \"Truly I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, `Be taken up and cast into the sea,\' it will happen. \"And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive.\" (Matthew 21:21-22)

So... is that just one of the thousand contradictions in the bible? Or what book should i hold more accountable than the words that jesus said? Im sorry im confused. lol

This is by far one of my favorite verses though:
Psalms 137:9 \"Happy [shall he be], that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.\"

Little ones meaning innocent babies. I thought christians were anti-abortion? LOL I guess true christians aren\'t.

#107 by P.S., Feb 24, 2008

"If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife." which is found in Deuteronomy 22:23-24.

This verse is talking about adultery,since the woman is betrothed if the woman did not cry out she was obviously a willing participant in an immoral act(adultery) and the man likewise, that is why they were both put to death,

Further, if you HAVE FAITH, And do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, `Be taken up and cast into the sea, it will happen. "And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive." (Matthew 21:21-22) that clearly states the Faithful will be heard, but the verse about

"He that turneth away from hearing the Law, even his prayer shall be abomination\"

clearly means those that are unfaithful and rebellious will not,
not a contradiction at all

#108 by Matt S., Feb 24, 2008

Keep all verses in context dear friend, as was said. There are no contradictions, only people skewing verses to their own means in order to confuse those who have not yet read.

#109 by J.K., Feb 24, 2008

Ephesians 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

Ephesians 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

also another reference that makes it clear that there is to be balance from both spouses is 1 Corinthians 7:4 which some people often overlook,

"The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife."

Clearly though the Husband is responsible as the head of the household, that does not make his wife a lesser being in the eyes of God, she should be treated with honor

JV your assertion that "God cares nothing of females" is clearly flawed when the verses are put in proper context

#110 by Matt S., Feb 24, 2008

JV as to your assertion that "God cares nothing of females," I beg to differ and Proverbs 31 calls the value of a good woman more precious than rubies

#111 by P,S, again from John, same as the last above P.S., Feb 24, 2008

There are no contradictions when kept in context, Psalms 137:9

"Happy [shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones."

refers to what was done by Babylon to the children of Israel and the Temple, it is talking about that since the Daughter of Babylon killed the children of Israel and brought destruction that vengeance will be sure.

Psalms 137:7-9
Remember, Oh Lord, The Children of Edom In the day of Jerusalem;Who said, Rase it,rase it, Even to The foundation thereof Oh Daughter of Babylon, Who art to be destroyed;Happy shall he be that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us,
Happy [shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones, a life for a life as the Old Testament Law required

#112 by Jessi, Feb 24, 2008

JV it is abundantly and grossly clear that you are skewing verses as Matt said, stop trying to confuse those who have not yet read,

#113 by RJ, Feb 25, 2008

thanks for the clarification on who left the P.S. John, without it people might think JV was contradicting himself by both trying to refute the bible in one comment and in a post script proving that he took the verse he quoted out of context, nontheless John you are right

There are no contradictions, as we've plainly seen, 0nly ppl that deliberately take bits and pieces and omit the rest of the verse because they know if they were to quote the full verse as it is written their whole "contradiction" argument would fall apart.

JV try as you might to skew verses, the Bible remains the True and Living Word of God

#114 by Anonymous, Feb 25, 2008

The "contradiction" argument is the unbelievers desperate attempt to try to justify their unbelief,God however proves Himself through His Word and His Laws are written on our hearts,our conscience bears witness. When eternity comes knocking, those that have rejected the gospel will be without excuse,God freely gave the Sacrifice, and whosoever will may come and receive pardon, but God will not force anyone to come, He draws and He calls, but He leaves the decision of whether we will accept or reject up to us.

May Eyes be opened and Tender hearts reached before it is everlasting too late,
Forever and Eternally in Love and faith,
Amen

#115 by P.S. from Anonymous, Feb 25, 2008

God is not vindictive as so many try to make him out to be, if He were he wouldn't even bother OFFERING us Salvation, but He gave His Son, because He Loves Us that much. That is why Christ came, to bear our penalty and reconcile us, God wants fellowship with his children, but Jesus made it clear that those that reject him and turn a deaf ear to his words have, by their own rejection and hardness of heart CHOSEN the wrath of God, Dear ones God Loves Us and freely paid our debt, God is Just and Holy, Dear ones will you choose Christ's awesome gift,and let Him bear the wrath and carry your burdens, or will you choose the wrath which is due us because we are sinners? God is waiting, the decision is yours

#116 by Peace and Grace To All, Feb 25, 2008

A Life For a Life,Christ paid that debt,thus Eternally fulfilling the Law and Satisfying God's demand for Righteousness and Justice as none of Us could.
He purchased Your Life and My Life with His Life, He is THE atonement, the Living sacrifice and He paid our debt in our place, suffering himself to sanctify and save Us as only He could, Do not trample on that precious gift,Love Him as He Loves Us.

God Bless

#117 by Rob, Feb 25, 2008

I'd like To further Expand on the psalms 137:9 context and explain what it is speaking of, here's some notes

[Psalm 137] A temple singer refuses to sing the people's sacred songs in an alien land despite demands from Babylonian captors (Psalm 137:1-4). The singer swears an oath by what is most dear to a musician--hands and tongue--to exalt Jerusalem always (Psalm 137:5-6). The psalm ends with a prayer that the old enemies of Jerusalem, Edom and Babylon,who had Slaughtered the Children of Israel, be destroyed (Psalm 137:7-9).

[9] Happy those who seize your children and smash them against a rock: the infants represent the future generations, and so must be destroyed, if the enemy is truly to be eradicated,

God will never pour out His wrath without cause, when the Children of Israel were taken captive by Babylon, Israel cried out for God to have vengeance and to repay Babylon by destroying it in Like manner as Edom and Babylon had done to Israel

#118 by Rob, Feb 25, 2008

Exodus 21:23-27 makes it clear that Retribution for injury under the civil laws should be likewise as was done by the injurer

This was the principle applied when the Children of Israel prayed for God to destroy Babylon, it was a prayer for civil Justice, not personal vengeance.

An Eye for an Eye was the penalty for injury under the Civil Law, contrary to popular beliefs it was never to be used as license for individuals to retaliate for personal insults or injuries against themselves, although some even today use "An Eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth" to try justifying personal vengeance

#119 by Jupiter, Feb 25, 2008

Dear JV,I can tell by your postings you are angry, we all go through things, you are not alone in that department, but that is no reason to lose faith, or to start being hostile, vindictive, and mocking

for future postings, please study in context before posting, I pray your eyes be opened and that you gain wisdom and understanding,

God Bless

#120 by Matthew, Feb 25, 2008

JV "Little Ones" refers to future generations, Yes, but the Edomites and Babylonians were not simply "innocent babies" as you erroneously believe,They were by heritage already the(present and future) enemies of Israel,children of the people that had 1st slaughtered and taken captive Israel's people, and had they not been eradicated they would've risen against Israel again as their ancestors had done,

As we know even today history all too often repeats itself, if someone unmercifully slaughtered your children(as Edom and Babylon did to Israel for generations) you too would want justice,a life for a life, Because Edom and Babylon killed the children of Israel, civil law dictated the penalty was that the same be done unto them,thus avenging the deaths of Israelite child killed at the hands of Edom and Babylon

#121 by P.S. from Matthew, Feb 25, 2008

Many ask how we could be sinners due to Adam's sin, call the sin an inherited curse,in the same manner as the children of Edom and Babylon were by heritage enemies of Israel, As descendants of Adam the sin was passed through the generations, the sin of the fathers visited upon the children.

The Reason that Christ is able to be our Sacrifice is because God, not Adam, Is Jesus' Father, and as God is without Sin, so Christ is without sin.

#122 by Matthew, Feb 25, 2008

Everything in the Bible,if kept in order and proper context is in Harmony, The Old Testament and New Testament are separate Covenants, Where death was required for sin under the Old Covenant, the New Covenant sealed in Christ's blood ransomed us, and the Covenant Christ made is Eternal, His Death bought our Salvation thus freeing us who believe from the penalty that our sin justly deserves. As was stated Christ gave His Life for us, A Life for a Life.

#123 by John, Feb 25, 2008

Dear one, listen closely and I shall explain each verse,

"But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."

Women are to be submissive their Husbands as unto the Lord, men were given headship for a reason,it was to keep the man accountable, because when Eve told Adam to eat of the fruit, he later tried to blame her, as part of the consequence for being the first one to disobey, eating the fruit and enticing Adam, she was put in subjection(obedience) to Him, however Man in their position of headship being accountable no longer have the excuse of "my wife made me do it"

#124 by John, Feb 25, 2008

1 Corinthians 14:34 - 35
"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."

Means that the woman should not try to be in the pulpit, that is the man's responsibility(it again goes to the fact that the man is held accountable, if the woman were in the pulpit then the Man, if they stumbled would try using an excuse similar to the one Adam used)

The woman is to be obedient and attentive that she may gain knowledge

#125 by John, Feb 25, 2008

"So, if god is jesus\' father... how was he a descendant of king David?" By Mary of course,In the Adamic Line though the sins of the father not the mother are inherited,since man was the 1st to be created, Since God is without sin, His righteousness was with Christ from the first.

#126 by John, Feb 25, 2008

as for 1 Corinthians 11:14 \"Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?\"

Long hair is a shame unto a man because In nature it would be a sign of wildness,or being disheveled, The point here was We should, even in our dress and habit, avoid every thing that may dishonour Christ. The woman was made subject to man, because made for

his help and comfort. Nevertheless, the man and the woman were made for one another. They were to be mutual comforts and blessings, not one a slave, and the other a tyrant.

#127 by J.K., Feb 25, 2008

Dear JV,After quoting 1 Corinthians 7:4 I said there was to be "balance from both spouses"I did not take the verse out of context at all. As John said though the woman is to be subject to the man they are nonetheless to be comforts and blessings to one another as they were made for each other, submission is not weakness at all contrary to present world view,It is actually an honorable strength, A wife's submission shows that she has honor for her husband and faith that He will guide her in a Godly, productive, and Loving manner, and that He[the Husband} will use His God given headship responsibly. The Husband is the Head of the Wife as Christ is the Head of the Church

#128 by J.K., Feb 25, 2008

Correction to my above post, I said Before(not after) quoting 1 Corinthians 7:4 that it showed there was to be "balance from both spouses", which it clearly does. I did not take the verse out of context at all.

#129 by Peace and Grace to all, Feb 26, 2008

It takes great strength to be willing to give of ones self for another, Submission is not weakness at all, it is a virtue.

A Godly wife is the glory of Her husband, and a Godly Husband Loves His wife as Christ Loves the church, and gives Himself for her.
The Husband is to guide the wife in Love and Godly wisdom.

#130 by Eve says:, Feb 26, 2008

@ 'peace and grace to all':

everythin is good till the last line: "the husband is to guide the wife in love and godly wisdom"

or i should say, you missed out on the next line: "the wife is to guide the husband in love and dogly wisdom"

all being equal, both are guides to each other, none taking a role above or below the other.

if we talk about raising children then its different - but just 2 married people, all is equal, in all ways. nothing more, nothing less

#131 by Peace and Grace to all, Feb 26, 2008

To Eve "the wife is to guide the husband in love and dogly wisdom"

Please, tell me this is a typo, or I will have to assume that you do not really think "all is equal," as you claim, I find the term "dogly wisdom" quite insulting.

#132 by Rob, Feb 26, 2008

Eve, the Wife is by no means a doormat or a dog,and should not be treated as such,by you suggesting that "the wife is to guide the husband in love and dogly wisdom" you grossly show your misunderstanding of what submission truly is. A wife's submission is a virtue as Peace stated, The Husband's headship is a responsibility as much as an honor, He is not to abuse it, if He does He is accountable.

#133 by Rob, Feb 26, 2008

to further expand on the topic of submission, let me point out that submission in the Biblical context is NOT synonymous with blind obedience(like that of a robot or Slave) , but rather it is The submissive subject consciously and freely yielding his or her own will to the will of the authority.

An example of biblical submission is Christ's submission to God the Father in the Garden of Gethsemane just prior to His death on the cross. Christ's example reveals that submission is not an act of blind obedience, but instead, it is a conscious act of a subordinate choosing to yield his will to the will of his authority.

#134 by Peace and Grace to all, Feb 26, 2008

As a footnote to Robs comment let us remember there is a difference between Blind obedience and the Submissive Obedience between the Husband and wife, that is where "Husbands Love your Wives as Christ Loves the church" comes in,

People make a conscious decision to submit to Christ, as Christ consciously submitted to the Father, likewise the Wife's submission to the husband is to be as unto the Lord and is a conscious obedience, not a blind one.

the book of 1 Peter makes it clear that men abusing their headship is sin and tells the Christian Husband let no such sinful abuse of headship be found among us. Peter urges Christian husbands to be considerate as they live with their wives.